This Site is 1.4.1 Now???

[JohnnyTheOne]

well spoken Frost,

I think I speak for everyone when I say Thank You. that is correct

[ZacFields]

I'd hate to rebut Frost's comment, but I'm going to anyways because I think it was a little much. Basically has been what everyone else has been saying but with a lot more detail.

I think everyone on this site who owns an IntegraMod forum should know what it means to work for free. I think we all know what a full time job is...and on top of that I have full-time school as well. So really, I'm physically not in the house for at least 65 hours a week between going to school and going to work.

But anyone who has owned an integramod forum before should know the meaning of free work. Everytime my old server would mess something up, who had to fix their code? Me. Everytime people wanted to upgrade this and upgrade that, who had to do it? Me.

You see, even though the workload is obviously a lot smaller, there is a workload attached to just owning an integramod forum. A lot of these guys complaining are guys that are working for FREE for their own users. I have over 1,300 of them on my boards. That's a job too, and these guys can't do their job until the upgrade comes out.

I will never disrespect the amount of time that goes into coding. I know all about it... because i've attempted it many times and I know I personally can't do it. I am very appreciative of what these guys do, but at the same time if none of you can understand people that get frusterated then I just don't know what to tell ya. When you're running a "business" that is technically in competition with dozens of other major businesses, your "customers" are going to expect a lot of things out of you...that's business! It's not all about the money, because all the people that use IntegraMod are exactly how IntegraMod is as big and well-known as it is. Without all these people using your product, what's the point?

So I'm going to say it again like I did in my last post. Your "thanks" and "congratulations" and all the praise you guys will ever want will come when the 141 is released. I promise. And if you find people who aren't giving you praise when 141 is released that were pushing you and ridiculing you while you were working on it, then those are the people you should be talking bad about.... not these other guys. Just remember they've got responsibilities too that they are doing for free that depend on what is available to them from this website.

Now I sound like a bad guy...and I don't want to sound like that. I'm not supporting everything these guys are saying...i'm just asking for a little understanding from you guys. We all know it's been a long time, it's not surprising to me that people are starting to get angry about it.

Zac

[Aquilo]

We don't forget the rest of you, and that's why I just stayed up almost 48 hours coding. This site only exists to continue on this package, if we weren't working to release it then there'd be no reason for this site to exist...

The last 48 hours or so have consisted of writing and refining the update scripts. If we had released a week ago, I would have missed part of the update I just fixed and that wouldn't have been good for anyone.

When I see a post like Aquilo's I'm definitely discouraged about the project, and surprised at the self-centered attitude. We're already doing this for you, the community, if anything see it as a favor. You don't respond to a favor by demanding that favor be done on your time, by your rules. I no longer even have a site, as the reason I had a site no longer exists, so 100% of the work I do on this project and the time I put in is not done for me.

When I put so much time and effort into something and someone posts garbage like this, it really makes me have second thoughts.

But, then I think of the rest of the community, the time and effort others have put in and I realize users that post tripe aren't even worth a first thought.

So, I close by saying, you might want to reexamine your attitude towards this project and community.

First of all, I would like to apologize for the tone of the two posts I made yesterday - Kismod developers are not the only ones that have bad days.

But, Teelk, your over-reaction and insults were completely uncalled for (not much community spirit from you there, either)... the next time you think to yourself that "I"m gonna thrash this bozo", you might want to try to understand his point first (and yes, I do understand that I could have made it clearer in my first post, again my apology for that).

My complaint is restricted to the fixes & enhancements that were deployed on this site without being made readily available to the rest of us.

At the time they were deployed here, they should have been made available to the rest of the community as 1.4.1 or 1.4.0.x, an incremental update to 1.4.0.

And, also at that time, the rest of the fixes and enhancements plans should have been moved forward to the next future release (1.4.2 or KisMod 1.0) - we should not have been forced to wait what is now 8 weeks for those updates. So, in that respect, it sure does feel like we've been forgotton about.

As far as the new release you all have been working so hard on... I, in no shape or form, made demands or rules on the upcoming version. Yes, i can't wait for it to come out, but I understand those things take as long as they take.

Additionally, as the owner & one of the admins at a non-profit, for fun site, I understand all too well, that the work done here is out-of-pocket, out of the developers own free time - so save the lectures.

[Aquilo]

Well, you have posted twice here according to your profile. And yet you think you can come here and criticize this team for volunteering their precious time to this project and community when you have not even contributed here in any way. Wow. That's pretty gutsy.

This second post was completely uncalled for - just proof that you've probably spent too many hours coding without getting any sleep.

Besides, so what if my first post was a complaint - I was not aware of any rule that you need to run up your post count before you can voice a complaint.

And just because it is not reflected in my post count, profile, or your own personal knowldege of me, your assumption that I have made no contributions here is a bit flawed. The other admin on my site has been a regular, contributing member of this site for quite a while, and we've worked quite closely together on some of the contributions he has made here.

I registered as a member for the purpose of making posts about the things here I issue with (yes, I did get off to a bad start, thanks to the tone of my first posts).... maybe some of those complaints will lead to changes for the better (maybe not).... isn't that what being part of a community is all about?

[Michaelo]

Lets tone it down...
We must appreciate that site owners are often under more pressure from their members than we (the dev team) are from ours... so let not argue amongst ourselves...

In the past few months I have done quite a few 24 hour shifts as it was required to make progress. On more than one occasion I found myself defending the dev team where one or two of our members went over the top with criticism....

We all get angry... most of us would probably re-evaluate and rephrase comments given time to reflect... make allowances for the workload and we will make allowances for the pressure you guys are under...

Mike

[Helter]

for those who have been here since the IM132 days you should remember that the development of 140 took much longer than than 141. Near the end of 140 development, things got rushed to get a release out the door. This resulted in a buggy release that required mass overwriting of files to fix. It also left 132 users orphaned, with no clear way to update to 140. You should be thankfull that the current devs learned from these mistakes.
This release is NOT being rushed out the door with intentions of fixing bugs later.
This release is dependant on a functional upgrade path, so as NOT to leave current phpbb, IM132, and 140 users stranded with no easy way to upgrade.
This release is not related to the experimentation that Wekke did on the live Integramod.com site that he called 141. He did that himself, and released no notes before dissapearing. This version of 140 really was really only started about one month before we moved from Integramod.com to integramod2.com. It was just supposed to be a bugfix with a few mod updates and php5 compatibility. You (meaning most users who voiced an opinion) wanted more. More security, more features, more speed, better stability...etc
These requests were taken seriously and so, as Mike stated before, the goal post have moved farther away yet again.
The problem with releasing alot of smaller patches and bugfixes is that when a user post an issue with his forum, we really have no idea what were dealing with. We still get tech questions from users who have not updated thier 140 forum with the security mod updates.
As for this site, It was originally built off of Teelks 141 version. That version is the basis for the current 141 version, but it still had many 140 bugs. As the bugs were found and fixed, they were applied here, because in order for dev to continue successfully, this site must remain functional and dependable.
Just to let you know how close we are to release; This site, almost mirrors the latest beta release. The reason we still insist that the beta not be used in a live enviroment, is the fact that there are still a few know issues being worked on, that will be a tech support nightmare once the release is made final.

[Frost]

Well, even though as Michaelo stated above, that we do often regret some of the things we say, I don't. Mine was a post for everyone that comes here, for the developers, the beta team, the styles people, the admins, owners, the mods, the users, everyone.

Just to let you step back and remember everything going on.
It's good that some of you have stated that yes, you know how it is, you do it as well. Then you know for yourself, it's never good to get aggrivated as it only leads to saying or doing something you will regret.

Let's just remember these aren't robots, these are other people who can be affected by a simple post because of that 10 minutes we got aggrivated.

I want nothing more than to try to show everyone that this effort is that of a whole community and people are passionate about it, don't ruin it for them.

[ZacFields]

Helter: Your post put a lot of things in perspective. That is the first time that I have read on here that explains specifically what the holdup is.

I can definitely have some appreciation for a more stable release. I have been around since the 1.3.2 days. I believe the first version I had was 1.3.2c I believe... it was so long ago.

Actually...honestly I didn't switch to 1.4.0 until abotu 6 months ago and PHPBB security is the best thing since sliced bread because all the attacks my forum was getting for DDOS was a major reason my site was running so slow.

I think the only thing I really felt would have been the most helpful was a PHP5 patch to tide the many people over who were buying VPS and Dedicated Servers that came preinstalled with PHP5 and we had nothing to do because a lot of us just assumed since phpbb 2.0.17 and higher is PHP5 compatible that an integramod running that version of phpbb or higher would be also.

I agree with you guys though. Let's just let it go. I remember the release of 1.4.0 .... I also feel as though I remember it lacking an upgrade path.. am I right? And I remember a lot of angry people who thought it was really dumb that we had a new release of the software...but nobody could upgrade to it. And then when it came out, seemed like everyone had problems with it at first. That's why I waited so long to upgrade.... I was smart and knew there might be some bugs initially that would get fixed <img>

But if we have to wait a little longer to get a stable version with an upgrade path... heck i'm cool with that.


ONE QUESTION: Will the 1.4.0 themes work with 1.4.1? It's probably been asked but i'm too lazy to find it.

zac

[Michaelo]

They should just require a little work to make compatible...

One easy way to do this is:
Take the default 141 theme and set up CVS on it.
Then take another theme and copy all the CVS directories created in the last process into the new theme...

All the changes that need to be made will be highlighted with icons... When you right click on a file you can select 'CVS Diff'... The two files will be opened and you can see the edits that need to be made...

You will need to download the CVS for you OS but it's very useful...
Mike

[Helter]

there are many new .tpl files and a few edits that would be required to use i40 templates and even then, they may suffer limited functionality. Originaly I started updating some 140 templates, but I decided to just re-port them from the template integra2. That way there will not be so many template bugs out there.
Ive just started posting the few that are done [url=http]here[/url]

[ZacFields]

ohhhh I call the Dark Black theme! Looks very nice!!!

Zac

[Helter]

thx <img> Dark is based on fisubice, so all the dark colors are actually one template.

[Michaelo]

H, you should try my method but I need to add another step based on your findings.... You would have to copy all the template files in the 141 default to the old 140 template and not overwrite existing files... the use the SVN... Mind you, you are so familiar with integra templates by now you could probably code one in your sleep It would be great to have all the coding over so we could go back to building niec themes <img>
Mike

[Frost]

Whoa, I had no idea you already had a black theme made HelterSkelter.

I realise how similar they look now and I will not be releasing mine. Didn't mean to step on any toes <img>

Edit: It was based off integra2 anyways

[Helter]

users like choice, so im sure your black theme will be a welcome addition
do you have a demo site?