We ARE IntegraMOD

[OzzieOne]

So out of the above post, the only words you saw were "Take Over". That tells me were your thoughts are, and how defensive you are to it. At first I thought it was possible for the two to co-exist, but I keep seeing more and more evidence on BOTH sides saying this isn't so.

Are there any other replies you have to the rest of the post?

some people will just never get it, and this will always be a rebellion, or "take over" to them. Yes that is what I saw in your post, because it has been posted dozens of times thoughout the forum what happend and yet a few ppl are still making the same comments, and assumptions, so youll have to forgive me if I seem a little defensive

I appreciate you, that ARE IntegraMOD, taking the time to tell us the way the world is. But if this happened in the business world, it WOULD be called a hostile take-over. Stealing the intellectual property of one site might be considered "hostile". Did you get Wekke's permission to take a backup of the orignal IntegraMOD and post on your web-server? If not, that would be considered theft in most parts of the world.

I have watched these petty arguments over and over again, ever since MasterDavid left the site and development to those that were left behind, and I'll tell you what if you ARE IntegraMOD, then we are in trouble.

I'm sure that the users of IntegraMOD appreciate your help and assistance, but that in no way makes YOU IntegraMOD. The "IntegraMOD community" IS IntegraMOD, not you the programmers who decided to carry on the project after the developer left.

[weehong]

i got a really brilliant suggestion Ozzieone... why don't you just leave HelterSkelter alone and get on with life? all i can see is that you are talking crap...

I have watched these petty arguments over and over again, ever since MasterDavid left the site and development to those that were left behind, and I'll tell you what if you ARE IntegraMOD, then we are in trouble.

you know what? i think that without these programmers, integramod may not have lived till today... if you got any probs, why don't you just go settle it with MasterDavid?

can any admins just lock this topic and kick this user off the forums?

[Helter]

By WE, I meant the IM community. If you were not so quick to judge and look for the source of all your frustrations here, you would see that. You also might see that if you read a few of the posts with an open mind. Wekke was a host. If what you are saying is correct, then this site, and everything in it belongs to me, because I am the host here. I am not so bloated with self adoration to even begin to think that anything developed here belongs to anyone but the IM community.

If you wish to point your finger at me, my record stands for itself. I have ported and designed dozens of templates. All have been done for free, and most have been updated as having been ported by either fiteam, or integrateam. I redid fisubice and removed the "ported by" from the footer. I setup and hosted this site out of my own pocket and I am not even an administrator. I do not make decisions here, i input my EQUAL opinion. I dont understand your beef with me as EVERYTHING I have done, I have done to keep this community together and thriving. Every staff member of the original site who has registered here has retained, or improved thier ranks. This site had nothing to do with IM.com going down. That my friend was set into motion by wekke months ago.
BTW...if this were IM.com and you spoke to the host (Wekke) like that, ALL privleges would be removed, including sending/recieving PM's and your post would be deleted. I know this. It hapened to most of the staff here including me, and we didnt even challenge him.
So I would suggest you get yourself a "MySpace" account and carry on your ranting there...they kinda like that <img>

[weehong]

my sentiments exactly <img>

[Adrian Rea]

Ozzie, I can appreciate what this appears like. If I were a regular user, I too would be in confusion about what and why this has happened. I wish I had written a blog about it because it could be worth something in years to come! <img>

I stand as one of those to lose alot if IntegraMOD, wherever it is, I have a reseller account on wb-hosting and if Wekke feels that I am an integral part of leading this break, he could cut off the sites I host for others. Also with fast approaching 5000 posts on Integramod.com, I had become the top poster, above masterdavid himself (not bad for a numbskull like me!). I think it was out of respect that I was made an admin here long before the decision was taken to move here was made.

I am a person who supports IntegraMOD, I am not so worried about where it is based or who runs things. I have countlessly posted in team forums on im.com about issues that have dogged integramod since masterdavid left. I have begged for issues to be tackled, to the point that others have felt threatened or bored by me. Nothing would please me more if Wekke would talk about it and join in with everyone. I have constantly asked prior to this break off for Wekke to come back but he didn't. I have a great respect for Wekke and his ability. I have said before that his skill is incredible and is an incredible asset to Integamod capable of producing great work. However on a number of occassions Wekke vanishes. Months and months go by and we do not hear from him. Whenever he returns he feels put out that people have moved things on.

Masterdavid did hand over all to Wekke. Wekke is quite adamant about this. But Wekke seems to act as if it is his devine right to act in the way he does without regard for the users that remain whilst he is away. Ownership of a project like this carries responsibility. I feel responsible and accountable to some degree and I am just a support person. So many other phpbb hybrids fail because the geniuses that invent them cannot spend the time to support their users and maintain the code or site to keep it up to date and potent.

Now I also appreciate that Wekke says he has been 'in hospital fighting for his life'. This may be so, but the argument stands, what do you think would have happened if he lost the fight? Would we have even known? Now I do know what it is like to be in hospital fighting for my existence. Often the last thing on your mind is finding a computer to go on the internet. So I have given Wekke some slack. But whenever wekke returns there is never an apology, no comment as to his absence and a blatant 'I run the show' attitude.

Now in the run up to the move, which I was not aware of, I tried to pave the way that Wekke could get straight back in where he left, but he never came. In the two weeks I was away the move seemed to happen but I cannot say quite how it did. When I returned it appears Wekke had finally found the ability to respond by removing privileges, deleting posts and disowning users. I tried when I came back and ever since to get wekke to respond but to date there has been nothing in reply. I have been known for my diplomacy, but I face an apparent brick wall with Wekke.

Regarding the old database. For the moment I have removed the link because I would like it set up fully as an archive and not a growing forum. It was my own stupid mistake that gave out the existence of it, so I apologize. But this was only set up after integraMOD.com went blank. Wekke tried to link the old db with his new hybrid, but it has so far failed. It was out of responsibility to integramod users that the archive has been set up. I was asked many times before, but I have resisted out of respect and a degree of loyalty. I will make a formal announcement when the archive is more secure. However here remain users that need information contained in it and it is irresponsible not to keep it available.

There are many more things I could discuss like hosting downtime, slow forums, developing on the live site, and all the positive things Wekke has done including user upload and hosting intgramod etc. But this has been verbose enough.

In a business world I suspect lawyers could be called, but this is an opensource community, where we all have rights. I have always tried to respect and uphold Wekke's rights, but the actions of others caused this split and I am trying to maintain as much as I can for all. So are the other members of this new team and the re-forming community. I hope you can feel angered by the situation, I myself am in a terrible state about but I have to move on.

At least we are openly talking about it.

A

[Jason Sanborn]

Without going into details, I would like to voice my support of the team here. I've read the situation as it was unfolding on both sites. I can say that publically the team tried to make peace with Wekke, to have this site as an additional forum of support, in addition to the main site (which all the team was still visiting and supporting from). From what I saw, it was Wekke who caused the division, nothing more.

I want to also say I am only now just getting to know people here. I found IntegraMOD end of February, just prior to the entire incident. So, I came into this situation not knowing anyone, and seeing only the publically posted comments.

[Adrian Rea]

thank you for your comment Jason.

I want to also say I am only now just getting to know people here. I found IntegraMOD end of February, just prior to the entire incident. So, I came into this situation not knowing anyone, and seeing only the publically posted comments.

Yeah, real scary when you get to know us! LOL <img>

A

[ayasha]

[quote=""Adrian Rea";p="3937""]
Yeah, real scary when you get to know us! LOL <img>

[Adrian Rea]

heheh, well that sums us up

A

[Eon]

I am with Jason on this one. I got in with IM around February before all this went down, and was getting extremely frustrated with the problems of the site and supporting issues. And now I love it since there is a stable site! I never saw Weeke until after everythng happened, and I personally think it is an improvement.

Who can do support at a site that you can't keep running? I was looking into switching to joomla or something, now I am hooked. <img>

[Dr. Bantham]

I have been a proud IntegraMOD user for about a year and a half, by my foggy recollection. I greatly appreciate all of the work and support I have benefited from, from Wekke and others. It is unfortunate that there are divisions within the community. Aside from the obvious loss of camaraderie, it is a negative drain on resource potential.

As for the legal implications, we should not forget that IntegraMOD is by and large a pre-packaged bundle of phpBB and various modifications, many of which were not created by IntegraMOD members. Mind you, the complexities of integrating the whole are quite mind-boggling, but much of the core content is open source code which was created by other parties. It is a very gray area to determine Wekke's rights to Master David's efforts. I would hope that the concept behind IntegraMOD was and will always be "Building Communities" and not egos. Having said that, I wish that we could all continue to benefit from Wekke's talents. I have also noticed that Ozzie was an active contributor on the original site, and hope that he and other like minded members find common ground with us all to continue progress with this project.

I truly hope that we do not lose the invaluable resource that is the original IM database. Even so, this site has tremendously active within the first few days, and it looks as if the rift between contributors could actually evolve into the impetus for a dramatic comeback. Due to the multitude problems which were all too evident, I had recently been debating on abandoning IM for another path, but I am now newly hopeful that IM shall continue to grow and thrive. I commend the efforts of the folks here at IM2 and pledge my support in what feeble manners I can gather. If relationships are mended and we all port back to the original site at some point, then I support that as well. The most important issue is that IM and all members are allowed to thrive in a positive environment. My site has greatly benefited from this scenario in the past. Thanks to everyone!

[Rhok]

I may be wrong Dr. Bantham but in my travels using the IntegraMod system I have come acrossed nothing but opensource material. So to me there is no "legal implications" of moving things to IntegraMod.

It does concern me that we lost a lot of historical posts that provided an outstanding resource for research.

But as a user - and just a user it was extremely frustrating dealing with the beta bugs that continually popped up on the Integramod.com site. Not only that but were you unfortunate enough to require assistance with your account due to these bugs you would find the given support mailbox - Wekke's mailbox full and your mail would be rejected.

When you are dealing with a group of coders and a lot of opensource you cannot simply go afk for long periods of time and expect to be able to step back in with no side effects.

I run 4 Integramod sites and am building up a 5th, for Forum based Community software I do not believe there is anything better out there. However one thing I personaly look for is the activity of the development community when dealing with open source. The more active the dev's the better the software - integramod was pretty stagnant for a while and it was frustrating.

Seeing the posts and witnessing the split of the dev community alot of things make sense to me now and I am glad things are back up and running.


I do have a concern though - I check back on Integramod.com from time to time simply because I like to search through the history there and get ideas or solve problems, this site just hasn't built enough history yet.
Today I noticed Wekke is building his site up on Ingtramod 2.0.

Has anyone tested this version? Has anyone besides Wekke even seen this version?
Why would want to take an untested version and test it on your main site? This leaves you in a perpetual state of beta testing, while this might be great for the developers working on the Beta it sucks big time for the end consumers of the product...

How many people were driven from integramod because their first exposure to it was on Integramod.com which was riddled with issues that were completely unecessary...

I appreciate the work everyone - wekke included - has done on Integramod it has made my life a lot easier.

But I am a software developer by trade and find it confusing and quite unacceptable to run your primary production site as a beta testing tool to try out new things, I discounted and "lived with it" because of the power and ease of use Integramod allowed integrating many great php mdules into a single easy to use interface.

So to me watching the story unfold, listening to the reasons to fracture off into Integramod2.com reinforced my belief in the Integramod platform.

But as for ownership, open source is open source. Integramod is an integration platform and if Wekke decides to attempt to claim ownership of Integramod itself he had better get permission from all the php module builders out there that go into making Integramod the powerful tool that it is.

To me Wekke wasn't trying claim ownership of the Integramod software, thats impossible, once a system is made open source no one person can own it, to me Wekke was attempting to claim ownership on the community itself.

[Nata]

One word : thanks to administrator and moderator for resÃÂÂ ªcting the liberty of thinking !

OzzieOne if u were in IM.com or another forums u will pay for that !

[Frostvarg]

as a long time user of IM i see no negative issues with this split. it was always a big surprise to me that the site was used for beta testing and since all those great person that has offered support when i have been in trouble are on this site im happy with it.

Frostvarg

[Dr. Bantham]

I may be wrong Dr. Bantham but in my travels using the IntegraMod system I have come acrossed nothing but opensource material. So to me there is no "legal implications" of moving things to IntegraMod.

My statement was a polite argument to OzzieOne's post:

Stealing the intellectual property of one site might be considered "hostile". Did you get Wekke's permission to take a backup of the orignal IntegraMOD and post on your web-server? If not, that would be considered theft in most parts of the world.

I think we are in total agreement regarding the open-source nature of the project:

. . . we should not forget that IntegraMOD is by and large a pre-packaged bundle of phpBB and various modifications, many of which were not created by IntegraMOD members. Mind you, the complexities of integrating the whole are quite mind-boggling, but much of the core content is open source code which was created by other parties.

The gray areas are the database copy and the IntegraMOD "brand". I would think that the former is community data gathered on behalf of the open-source effort, and free of any binding administrator rights. The latter is more of a sticky issue, since it may default to the terms of rights transfer between Master David and Wekke. I was only trying to address OzzieOne's accusations while pondering the legal implications involved. One should not wholly overlook such concerns. Lastly, I hope it was clear that I support the new move one hundred percent, especially in light of the dramatic circumstances.