Why aren't there more devs on this project?

[computerz]

Why does it seem like there's only 2 or 3 (if that) devs on this project, all of whom never appear to be around or always busy. I'm not faulting anyone at all, I'm just surprised that with such a great project going on, there aren't more devs. And I'm not even going to mention the support, but lets just be honest, the support on this project is terrible to say the least. Its good when you get it, but outside of that its horrible. And I stress, I say this not to blame anyone for anything, I know people have lives, etc, and are not getting paid for this. But I say it to point out that there's something truly "missing" from this, namely devs.

And its hurting the project, because you have alot of "broken" integramod sites out there. Sites where this works, that works, but "this over here is broken" or that works and this works, but "that over there is broken", and it shows in comparison to the sites that do work (the paid for sites... no need to mention their names).

And a site that works leaves an indellible impression of legitimacy in the mind of those who notice by whom the site is powered, namely that thing at the bottom of the screen that says, "Powered by.....".

That says alot or it says nothing at all.

[Imajica]

I gotta say that personally I've gotten good support with integramod... and as long as I'm careful about my install it works great for me

I've got 2 sites on 1.4.0, 2 in development on 1.4.1, and one happily sitting on IM Portal with more mods in it than I care to count.

The problems I've encountered are entirely self-made or my hosts problem with doing upgrades behind my back.

I'd dev but I know as much about programming and php as my three year old...so I just test <img>


just my take on it

[Drop-Forged]

Ive always been impressed with the quality of support of the devs on this site.

The regulars on this site are always helping each other, and others out as well.

I see allot better support here then I see at allot of pay mods sites.

[Fubie]

Thanks for the kind words guys, very much appreciated.

Computerz, you have to remember that the dev's are really busting their humps right now on the beta. We really want to get it out the door, and as you stated we all have lives in the real world. Sometimes those real lives throw us curve balls. Some 0f us may vanish for a time while others seem to be here contstantly, then things swap.

Why don't we have more dev's? Ever heard of to many cooks in the kitchen? That's what happened during 140 development and it was very difficult.

Please remember that this is a community, and communities help one another. Over 2yrs ago I was a noob when it came to phpbb and Integramod. But within 6 months I learned so much that MasterDavid invited me to the beta team. I learned everything I know from this community.

If you have gone without support I am truely sorry, I can assure you that it was not intentional in any way.

[Dioncecht]

And I'm not even going to mention the support, but lets just be honest, the support on this project is terrible to say the least. Its good when you get it, but outside of that its horrible. And I stress, I say this not to blame anyone for anything, I know people have lives, etc, and are not getting paid for this. But I say it to point out that there's something truly "missing" from this, namely devs.

Are you stoned? I have had Ikonboard, Invision, YABB, and regular phpBB before I switched to IM and I have had nothing but outstanding support from IM. Look through the threads here and you'll find many answers to many questions. At least here the devs DO answer questions and really do care about the members.

Tell you what, ask a question at Ikonboard and tell me how many answers you get back. You'll be lucky to get a rude remark telling you how dumb you are for asking it in the first place. I'd say the same for Invision except they are charging now. Ask a question at YABB, you'll never get a reply. Ask a question at phpBB... it'll be at least a week before you get an answer IF you get one at all.

I am always breaking my site and come here for help. The devs probably groan whenever they see my name, but 90% of my questions get an answer none-the-less. Don't discredit the community as a whole either. The community here is high calibre and very intelligent, and very willing to help others out. I could name at least 5 non-devs that are php/sql/IM savvy (although I wont) and are always helping others out.

Yes the devs are very busy working on the next release, but you have an entire community that has had almost any issue you can possibly dream up and if someone knows the answer, they offer it.

The support here is FAR from horrible. I really think that was an unfair and unwarranted statement, especially since one of the devs offered you a suggestion for one of your issues and the other one was only posted Thursday. If it goes unanswered for a week, bump it. Someone may have looked at it and meant to get back to you on it and just forgot. just because one issue wasn't answered immediatly doesn't make the support horrible.

Sorry.. I'll shut up now.

[computerz]

Sir.. All I have to do is take you to the archive site and query my name (the old name) and you will see for yourself numerous legitimate questions that I have asked with little or no support whatsoever. This entire year, I have asked legitimate questions, even on this site, which have either gone unanswered or received what I call "shot-in-the-dark" responses from non-devs.

The posts are still there, such that if you see the percentage of unanswered threads that I have, you'll be able to ask yourself are "you" stoned, especially considering how I have patiently held my peace about it. I didn't bump threads, nor complain, I just handled my problems on my own.

This is not to suggest that the devs themselves are bad, but rather that this is just like any other community or social setting where if people know you, then they'll take time out for you, as in your case probably. People such as me, I'm unknown, so sacrifice is not made for my issues, which I completely accept, but I still call it as it is. A spade is a spade irregardless of how you wish to twist it. So don't be foolish to think that just because YOU get good support, that everyone else does.

There are threads right now on the 1.4.0 Support Forum with no support. What do you say to that? (And being that this thread was not about support per-se, but the number of devs on hand who could help better it, I see you took the opportunity to further solidify more support for yourself via a-- kissing. So allow me to help you stoop back up).

Here you go, since you get so much support, how about you go in the forums and help these people out.. Because We shouldn't have any of the following, since this is such great support, correct?

No Response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1928

No response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1957

No response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2005

No response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2002
(An easy one. The answer is a simple include statement)

No response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2003
(Another easy one. Simply edit the language file)


Shall I continue?


No Response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1997
(too easy.. a simple css hack and tpl edit. yet no response)

No Response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1994
(very legitimate question from someone in need. Yet no response)

No Response
http://www.integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1692


Even though I could go on and on with this, I'm not going to do so as I'm not trying to put the devs on blast. Like I said I know they're busy.

But for you to ask me, am I stoned, as if though you're absolutely blind like stevie wonder, with all of these glaring unanswered posts on this site, tells me that you are either foolishly self-centered or quite stoned yourself.

Regards,
computerskillz

[found it]

Firstly and foremost this is a member help member site......


Apart from the devs who do a great deal of coding and security checks there a couple of admin (1 who is dev) and as of what i have seen 3 moderators myself included.....

the whole point of this site is that we rely on members helping members...we do not state that devs, moderators, admins are the only people to ask for support....we ask that everyone helps everyone else.....

the sadest thing with some members here is they take all of the support for their sites and never return any help to the rest of the community..

The saddest thing of all is when I read post when members slate the site saying support is rubbish etc etc....if you really want to moan, moan at all the people who take from the project and never give back the ones that hound you in pms, emails and msn and then if you cannot fix or support them tell you to **** *** .

We do our best and amazingly the internet is so great at finding answers to your problems that sometimes it is worth doing a search for similar as I can guarentee over the last 5 years someone has made the same mistake, their site has crashed, hacked , burnt out, or just danced a tango <img>

[computerz]

Firstly and foremost this is a member help member site......


Apart from the devs who do a great deal of coding and security checks there a couple of admin (1 who is dev) and as of what i have seen 3 moderators myself included.....

the whole point of this site is that we rely on members helping members...we do not state that devs, moderators, admins are the only people to ask for support....we ask that everyone helps everyone else.....

the sadest thing with some members here is they take all of the support for their sites and never return any help to the rest of the community..

The saddest thing of all is when I read post when members slate the site saying support is rubbish etc etc....if you really want to moan, moan at all the people who take from the project and never give back the ones that hound you in pms, emails and msn and then if you cannot fix or support them tell you to **** *** .

We do our best and amazingly the internet is so great at finding answers to your problems that sometimes it is worth doing a search for similar as I can guarentee over the last 5 years someone has made the same mistake, their site has crashed, hacked , burnt out, or just danced a tango <img>

Found it, I truly respect that, because thats all one can do, which is their best. My reasons for making this thread was to point out that we need more people involved in this project, and yes, you're correct, I've witnessed it too where people would get supported and not even come back to tell you if the problem was fixed or not. It makes one less anxious to help someone in the future. In addition as you said, these same people don't provide any support themselves, which is why when I can, I come on here and for every question I pose, I attempt to answer 2ce as many.

Perhaps this could be added to the tos, where in order to get support you have to show due dilegence and willingness to help someone else. I would love to see that, as that would prevent people from gloating over how much support they get, as opposed to how much support they give.

I think its well known that members such as yourself, teelk, adrian, mrdsl, etc, are very supportive when they can. But I'm quite certain that its a burden on just a handful of people to do all of this day in and day out, which is why I asked, why aren't there more devs.

Forgive me if I sounded harsh in my description of the support, but that was too highlight not the quality of the support, but moreso the quantity of it, and neither anything personal towards the staff or the devs, but an attempt to say that with such an awesome product as this, it is absolutely amazing that it doesn't have a larger team.

Regards,
computerz

[found it]

I have to agree with your with regards to a larger team but it is finding those members who wish to help....may be your thread will high light this to others.

[Flex]

I have to agree with computerz, there's little if any support around here. Please DO NOT take this as an insult, I'm only stating what I've seen, me included I have had numerous answered requests and I do understand what you're saying found it about people helping people. well... sounds good in theory but unfortunately it's not reality.

I have purchased IPB after researching on different boards and quality of support.

I DO appreciate the help (when given) found here, but I disagree leaving a great project such as IM for "the people" to support.

I wish everyone best of luck with 141, but I need support now!.

Thanks again.

[Helter]

I have to agree with computerz, there's little if any support around here. Please DO NOT take this as an insult, I'm only stating what I've seen, me included I have had numerous answered requests and I do understand what you're saying found it about people helping people. well... sounds good in theory but unfortunately it's not reality.

I have purchased IPB after researching on different boards and quality of support.

I DO appreciate the help (when given) found here, but I disagree leaving a great project such as IM for "the people" to support.

I wish everyone best of luck with 141, but I need support now!.

Thanks again.

You have been fooled...lol
for $185 + $30 a year for support they better have better support.
but here is the kicker. If we were to strip 2/3 of the mods from IM140 we would still be more functional than IPB but we would be as stable as them too, and our most jr of users would be able to tech nearly any problem. IM 140 has more mods by far than any other available package. Other than Nuke and phpBB, we have more available templates. The additional features the you have to pay extra for, such as albums, dl managers etc... are all included in 140, and if they are not, they are usually available for dl for free, and supported pretty damn well. Sorry, if you just want a basic forum and are willing to pay someone to hold your hand, we are not for you

[Flex]

I have to agree with computerz, there's little if any support around here. Please DO NOT take this as an insult, I'm only stating what I've seen, me included I have had numerous answered requests and I do understand what you're saying found it about people helping people. well... sounds good in theory but unfortunately it's not reality.

I have purchased IPB after researching on different boards and quality of support.

I DO appreciate the help (when given) found here, but I disagree leaving a great project such as IM for "the people" to support.

I wish everyone best of luck with 141, but I need support now!.

Thanks again.

You have been fooled...lol
for $185 + $30 a year for support they better have better support.
but here is the kicker. If we were to strip 2/3 of the mods from IM140 we would still be more functional than IPB but we would be as stable as them too, and our most jr of users would be able to tech nearly any problem. IM 140 has more mods by far than any other available package. Other than Nuke and phpBB, we have more available templates. The additional features the you have to pay extra for, such as albums, dl managers etc... are all included in 140, and if they are not, they are usually available for dl for free, and supported pretty damn well. Sorry, if you just want a basic forum and are willing to pay someone to hold your hand, we are not for you

Wow! personal attack?

Don't take this personal dude, I'm free to do what I wish.
I was only stating my opinion, get off your high horses. No need to be rude.

That is a perfect example as to why I'm moving away from IM.

Sorry you're not happy with my decision but I need support for my site when I ask for it and I'm willing to pay for it. I don't appreciate you calling me a fool for doing so.

[Helter]

personal attack? lmao If you think that is a personal attack then you have pretty thin skin.


ps. If you think that saying you were fooled is the same thing as calling you a fool, then you have obviously made the right choice after all

[Flex]

edit by Helter Skelter

if you just want to fight, please go elsewere and do it

[Fubie]

Here's the thing. If we got more Dev's they would be people already here in the community. If they are good enough to be a Dev they would already be helping you as community members.

So.. Realistically, you would be getting the same help you are now.

I feel bad that you did not get the help you needed. But it happened and all we can do at this point is put out a more stable release which will hopefully lower the occurance of bugs that can only be answered by the ones who wrote the code, which in turn will make it easier for the team to concentrate more on answering posts and less on fixing bugs of a released product.

[found it]

I may be kicking myself in the ass here but when I post asking for support (which I have done in the past)

asking for help etc etc ....alot of the time i do not get it...a lot of the time my posts do not even get read..lol

but I have solved every problem with my site by myself..I have learnt html code, I can make templates work with php code I have made small mods that I need for my sites and a few blocks along the way....

I started in november 2004 as I had a lot of free time with work and i wanted to learn something.....back then it took me a full 2 days to figure out just how to load phpBB onto my server and install it...lol

and then a further 3 months to figure out what the hell anything meant....

All I wanted to say is personally for myself ...and dont get me wrong it is the most frustrating thing in the world when you have a problem and may be just maybe someone knows the answer but doesn't reply...it has been a lesson that i am grateful to have been given...or something like that..

[grizzly_cs]

LOL I love it when a plan comes together.... I thank everyone here, especially Fubie... without their support I would have never been able to do what I have learned to do... I have little to no fear of messing with a database or how things work, granted still cant easily navigate php, mysql but dammit I can usally fix what I and others break...

There are very few places where you will find folks willing to atleast point you in the right direction, seems some forget that these guys get paid little to nothing for their help...

[Dioncecht]

aw c'mon.. we're all a community and we're in this together. I might have gotten a little carried away with my post.. sorry guys. Didn't mean to spark anything...

C'mon.. group hug <img>

[Flex]

For what it's worth, my order with IPB got voided by the billing manager for some reason and wanted me to fax or email more details before continuing, at which point I decided to wait for 141 o: everyone <img>

[Helter]

i think youll be happier with 141 in the long run. Glad your sticking around <img>

[evolver]

Let's not forget:
A lot of time has been spent on 1.4.1

It can be difficult to change concentration from one version to another...
We are all hoping to get 1.4.1 out as soon as possible.

But every request for 1.4.0 can slow down the progress on 1.4.1, while maybe 1.4.1 has allready the answers to some of them...
Unfortunatly the final release is taking so much longer than expected, and many requests about 1.4.0 have been left unanswered...

It is sad...
Sometimes I just wish I could clone myself to make the other me concentrate on 1.4.0
And if it were possible, then why not a second clone to go to work for me so I can spend more time at this...

I think a lot of that will change when 1.4.1 finaly becomes released:
one version to concentrate on, and everybody happy...

Oh yes, how I would love to do this full-time...
But lets face reality, if I would quit my job, I wouldn't even be able to afford myself a computer to do anything here at all...
Paid supportsites don't have that kind of problem, while integraMOD developers can only try to do better...after hours, spending less time with family and less sleeping time at night (also causing bad concentration sometimes)
Sometimes I even dream of code...
These dreams always seem so important that I can't just get up when my alarm-clock sounds...
I really have to finish that code in the dream first, nothing can be more important...
Amazing how dreams can play tricks on us in such a way... <!-- s]

But there are some advantages:
We like what we do, while most paid support-sites will just do it for the money...
And we are not just trying to make it better for everyone, we are also trying to make it better for ourselves.
Nothing limits our support to answer a question, we can even add more spice to it, extra options...
Paid support-sites won't spend time on that, every extra time spent is just a big wast of time and money to them, so it's in their highest interest to answer straight to the point (OK, that's a good thing), but anything more than that would be wasted time and money and they will avoid that...

And last but not least...integraMOD supports everyones work...
Everyone can add new MODS, let others try it and maybe even get it integrated in a next version...
On most paid-supportsites you will loose support just by trying to change something by yourself... Before changing anything you should always ask them first, then only do as they tell you to, or you can certainly kiss their nice support goodbye...

I started looking for support here...
Then when I fixed some problems I became developer...
I didn't know anyone here, I was just a visitor trying to fix some bugs.
So I'm sure that anyone who can do the same, can become developer here...
So the big topic-question:
[color=red]Why aren't there more devs on this project?
can only be answered with another question]Why aren't there more people who try it themselves?[/color]

IntegraMOD is not only a usable script...
It's also something everybody can learn from.
I'm no PHPexpert, I just discovered what I can do by trying, searching for new ways (not only on integraMOD.com) and trying again...
I came here to look for support, and I never even thought I could give that myself...

With integraMOD, I haven't only discovered a portal-forum, I've also discovered something in myself that I wasn't even aware of...
And I'm not the only one.
I'm sure that there would be more devs if more people would try and discover what they can do...

[computerz]

wow .. awesome post evolver...

man, i really feel bad now making this thread.. but i'm able to take something positive from this.

yeah group hug everyone.. we're all in this together.. this is OUR project.. lets make it the best!

[flash=,:271ihm7g]http://rpghq.org/cheers.gif[/flash:271ihm7g]

--EDIT--

And after a touching post like that, recognizing the man who made it, who demonstrated therein much dedication and sacrifice, I say we name the project eVolver 1.0.

[Dioncecht]

wow .. awesome post evolver...

man, i really feel bad now making this thread.. but i'm able to take something positive from this.

yeah group hug everyone.. we're all in this together.. this is OUR project.. lets make it the best!

[flash=,:37t96oja]http://rpghq.org/cheers.gif[/flash:37t96oja]


--EDIT--

And after a touching post like that, recognizing the man who made it, who demonstrated therein much dedication and sacrifice, I say we name the project eVolver 1.0.

I have to agree with computerz.. that was a great answer evolver!

[Flex]

I hope you guys aren't hoping for some of these guys to come back?, Where are they?.

http://integramod.com/forum/staff.php?s ... 5e5e867d7a

I realise some of these guys would have been really helpful in the past, but why keep them as mods, when they don't even visit the forums anymore

[Helter]

the ppl you see listed there were key to the past success of Integramod, whether devs, admin, or mods, so i dont think they should be removed.
I agree though that evolver would make a great mod, but its an admin decision

[Fubie]

Just so everyone knows Evolver has been a part of the Dev team for some time now. Some of the code and fixes in 141 are his. He has also taken my CHMOD script that worked very well and made it something that is incredibly sweet! We are hoping to release it with 141 and I think everyone will love it, I know I do.

[Flex]

Oh really, then give him a DEV uniform <img>.

Good we need people like that. And as for the script that worked very well?...

Release 141 already!! the suspense is killing me! hehe

[Helter]

he's had a Dev tag for a long time...

[MadUser]

What a post!!

It is very encouraging to spill your guts out.
Everybody gets everything out of their system, and then they kiss and make up. I love it! Make room for me!
I too asked many questions and have not always received answers. I looked and tried by myself, and guess what? I succeeded.
I think its part of the fun. You feel really proud after fixing something all by yourself.
I dont know any other support for CMS communities.
I did my research and came up with two winning CMS's: IM, Joomla.
Though people told me that 'SMF' is far more reliable and efficient than 'phpBB', I found IM much more appealing.
As I said somewhere before, I am a software programmer (JAVA) and I must say that, I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A CLEAN OOP (Object Oriented Programming) CODE IN MY LIFE.

I have only been in the PHP field for 2 months, but I hope to be more helpful and contributive in time.
I love you all and I feel like I can trust you.
(especially Adrian)

[obiku]

Nice post Evolver,

An one comment, I think there are a whole bunch of people out there who are putting time into integraMOD. Trying to understand the code, and indirect trying to help developers to solve bugs <img>.

Not everybody can be in the dev team, but we all can help the dev team. I call it synergy 1 + 1 = 3 (hope I say it right, I translated it out of Dutch) And yes we can count in Holland, but what I wanted to say 2 people know more than 1 on it's own.

[Mighty Gorgon]

I was just surfing around here and noticed this topic.

I would like just to say that I agree with the answers of the Staff.

I currently run a couple of communities and I used to be active part in many others in the past, and I know how difficult is taking care of the whole posting activity when the community grows fast.

As a developer I can even say that it is difficult to develop something when you have to support it too. The core part of each community are finally the users, without them and the help they could provide each others you cannot properly define a site a community.

I like evolver answer, because I can see myself past history in some part of his post, and that's because I've decided to post my opinion too.

IntegraMOD is a big and really good project. IntegraMOD has been the first premodded I really liked and used live on a couple of website.

I really hope you will keep up the good job here, and release a new good package soon.

Thank you.