We ARE IntegraMOD

[OzzieOne]

So out of the above post, the only words you saw were "Take Over". That tells me were your thoughts are, and how defensive you are to it. At first I thought it was possible for the two to co-exist, but I keep seeing more and more evidence on BOTH sides saying this isn't so.

Are there any other replies you have to the rest of the post?

some people will just never get it, and this will always be a rebellion, or "take over" to them. Yes that is what I saw in your post, because it has been posted dozens of times thoughout the forum what happend and yet a few ppl are still making the same comments, and assumptions, so youll have to forgive me if I seem a little defensive

I appreciate you, that ARE IntegraMOD, taking the time to tell us the way the world is. But if this happened in the business world, it WOULD be called a hostile take-over. Stealing the intellectual property of one site might be considered "hostile". Did you get Wekke's permission to take a backup of the orignal IntegraMOD and post on your web-server? If not, that would be considered theft in most parts of the world.

I have watched these petty arguments over and over again, ever since MasterDavid left the site and development to those that were left behind, and I'll tell you what if you ARE IntegraMOD, then we are in trouble.

I'm sure that the users of IntegraMOD appreciate your help and assistance, but that in no way makes YOU IntegraMOD. The "IntegraMOD community" IS IntegraMOD, not you the programmers who decided to carry on the project after the developer left.

[weehong]

i got a really brilliant suggestion Ozzieone... why don't you just leave HelterSkelter alone and get on with life? all i can see is that you are talking crap...

I have watched these petty arguments over and over again, ever since MasterDavid left the site and development to those that were left behind, and I'll tell you what if you ARE IntegraMOD, then we are in trouble.

you know what? i think that without these programmers, integramod may not have lived till today... if you got any probs, why don't you just go settle it with MasterDavid?

can any admins just lock this topic and kick this user off the forums?

[Helter]

By WE, I meant the IM community. If you were not so quick to judge and look for the source of all your frustrations here, you would see that. You also might see that if you read a few of the posts with an open mind. Wekke was a host. If what you are saying is correct, then this site, and everything in it belongs to me, because I am the host here. I am not so bloated with self adoration to even begin to think that anything developed here belongs to anyone but the IM community.

If you wish to point your finger at me, my record stands for itself. I have ported and designed dozens of templates. All have been done for free, and most have been updated as having been ported by either fiteam, or integrateam. I redid fisubice and removed the "ported by" from the footer. I setup and hosted this site out of my own pocket and I am not even an administrator. I do not make decisions here, i input my EQUAL opinion. I dont understand your beef with me as EVERYTHING I have done, I have done to keep this community together and thriving. Every staff member of the original site who has registered here has retained, or improved thier ranks. This site had nothing to do with IM.com going down. That my friend was set into motion by wekke months ago.
BTW...if this were IM.com and you spoke to the host (Wekke) like that, ALL privleges would be removed, including sending/recieving PM's and your post would be deleted. I know this. It hapened to most of the staff here including me, and we didnt even challenge him.
So I would suggest you get yourself a "MySpace" account and carry on your ranting there...they kinda like that <img>

[weehong]

my sentiments exactly <img>

[Adrian Rea]

Ozzie, I can appreciate what this appears like. If I were a regular user, I too would be in confusion about what and why this has happened. I wish I had written a blog about it because it could be worth something in years to come! <img>

I stand as one of those to lose alot if IntegraMOD, wherever it is, I have a reseller account on wb-hosting and if Wekke feels that I am an integral part of leading this break, he could cut off the sites I host for others. Also with fast approaching 5000 posts on Integramod.com, I had become the top poster, above masterdavid himself (not bad for a numbskull like me!). I think it was out of respect that I was made an admin here long before the decision was taken to move here was made.

I am a person who supports IntegraMOD, I am not so worried about where it is based or who runs things. I have countlessly posted in team forums on im.com about issues that have dogged integramod since masterdavid left. I have begged for issues to be tackled, to the point that others have felt threatened or bored by me. Nothing would please me more if Wekke would talk about it and join in with everyone. I have constantly asked prior to this break off for Wekke to come back but he didn't. I have a great respect for Wekke and his ability. I have said before that his skill is incredible and is an incredible asset to Integamod capable of producing great work. However on a number of occassions Wekke vanishes. Months and months go by and we do not hear from him. Whenever he returns he feels put out that people have moved things on.

Masterdavid did hand over all to Wekke. Wekke is quite adamant about this. But Wekke seems to act as if it is his devine right to act in the way he does without regard for the users that remain whilst he is away. Ownership of a project like this carries responsibility. I feel responsible and accountable to some degree and I am just a support person. So many other phpbb hybrids fail because the geniuses that invent them cannot spend the time to support their users and maintain the code or site to keep it up to date and potent.

Now I also appreciate that Wekke says he has been 'in hospital fighting for his life'. This may be so, but the argument stands, what do you think would have happened if he lost the fight? Would we have even known? Now I do know what it is like to be in hospital fighting for my existence. Often the last thing on your mind is finding a computer to go on the internet. So I have given Wekke some slack. But whenever wekke returns there is never an apology, no comment as to his absence and a blatant 'I run the show' attitude.

Now in the run up to the move, which I was not aware of, I tried to pave the way that Wekke could get straight back in where he left, but he never came. In the two weeks I was away the move seemed to happen but I cannot say quite how it did. When I returned it appears Wekke had finally found the ability to respond by removing privileges, deleting posts and disowning users. I tried when I came back and ever since to get wekke to respond but to date there has been nothing in reply. I have been known for my diplomacy, but I face an apparent brick wall with Wekke.

Regarding the old database. For the moment I have removed the link because I would like it set up fully as an archive and not a growing forum. It was my own stupid mistake that gave out the existence of it, so I apologize. But this was only set up after integraMOD.com went blank. Wekke tried to link the old db with his new hybrid, but it has so far failed. It was out of responsibility to integramod users that the archive has been set up. I was asked many times before, but I have resisted out of respect and a degree of loyalty. I will make a formal announcement when the archive is more secure. However here remain users that need information contained in it and it is irresponsible not to keep it available.

There are many more things I could discuss like hosting downtime, slow forums, developing on the live site, and all the positive things Wekke has done including user upload and hosting intgramod etc. But this has been verbose enough.

In a business world I suspect lawyers could be called, but this is an opensource community, where we all have rights. I have always tried to respect and uphold Wekke's rights, but the actions of others caused this split and I am trying to maintain as much as I can for all. So are the other members of this new team and the re-forming community. I hope you can feel angered by the situation, I myself am in a terrible state about but I have to move on.

At least we are openly talking about it.

A

[Jason Sanborn]

Without going into details, I would like to voice my support of the team here. I've read the situation as it was unfolding on both sites. I can say that publically the team tried to make peace with Wekke, to have this site as an additional forum of support, in addition to the main site (which all the team was still visiting and supporting from). From what I saw, it was Wekke who caused the division, nothing more.

I want to also say I am only now just getting to know people here. I found IntegraMOD end of February, just prior to the entire incident. So, I came into this situation not knowing anyone, and seeing only the publically posted comments.

[Adrian Rea]

thank you for your comment Jason.

I want to also say I am only now just getting to know people here. I found IntegraMOD end of February, just prior to the entire incident. So, I came into this situation not knowing anyone, and seeing only the publically posted comments.

Yeah, real scary when you get to know us! LOL <img>

A

[ayasha]

[quote=""Adrian Rea";p="3937""]
Yeah, real scary when you get to know us! LOL <img>

[Adrian Rea]

heheh, well that sums us up

A

[Eon]

I am with Jason on this one. I got in with IM around February before all this went down, and was getting extremely frustrated with the problems of the site and supporting issues. And now I love it since there is a stable site! I never saw Weeke until after everythng happened, and I personally think it is an improvement.

Who can do support at a site that you can't keep running? I was looking into switching to joomla or something, now I am hooked. <img>

[Dr. Bantham]

I have been a proud IntegraMOD user for about a year and a half, by my foggy recollection. I greatly appreciate all of the work and support I have benefited from, from Wekke and others. It is unfortunate that there are divisions within the community. Aside from the obvious loss of camaraderie, it is a negative drain on resource potential.

As for the legal implications, we should not forget that IntegraMOD is by and large a pre-packaged bundle of phpBB and various modifications, many of which were not created by IntegraMOD members. Mind you, the complexities of integrating the whole are quite mind-boggling, but much of the core content is open source code which was created by other parties. It is a very gray area to determine Wekke's rights to Master David's efforts. I would hope that the concept behind IntegraMOD was and will always be "Building Communities" and not egos. Having said that, I wish that we could all continue to benefit from Wekke's talents. I have also noticed that Ozzie was an active contributor on the original site, and hope that he and other like minded members find common ground with us all to continue progress with this project.

I truly hope that we do not lose the invaluable resource that is the original IM database. Even so, this site has tremendously active within the first few days, and it looks as if the rift between contributors could actually evolve into the impetus for a dramatic comeback. Due to the multitude problems which were all too evident, I had recently been debating on abandoning IM for another path, but I am now newly hopeful that IM shall continue to grow and thrive. I commend the efforts of the folks here at IM2 and pledge my support in what feeble manners I can gather. If relationships are mended and we all port back to the original site at some point, then I support that as well. The most important issue is that IM and all members are allowed to thrive in a positive environment. My site has greatly benefited from this scenario in the past. Thanks to everyone!

[Rhok]

I may be wrong Dr. Bantham but in my travels using the IntegraMod system I have come acrossed nothing but opensource material. So to me there is no "legal implications" of moving things to IntegraMod.

It does concern me that we lost a lot of historical posts that provided an outstanding resource for research.

But as a user - and just a user it was extremely frustrating dealing with the beta bugs that continually popped up on the Integramod.com site. Not only that but were you unfortunate enough to require assistance with your account due to these bugs you would find the given support mailbox - Wekke's mailbox full and your mail would be rejected.

When you are dealing with a group of coders and a lot of opensource you cannot simply go afk for long periods of time and expect to be able to step back in with no side effects.

I run 4 Integramod sites and am building up a 5th, for Forum based Community software I do not believe there is anything better out there. However one thing I personaly look for is the activity of the development community when dealing with open source. The more active the dev's the better the software - integramod was pretty stagnant for a while and it was frustrating.

Seeing the posts and witnessing the split of the dev community alot of things make sense to me now and I am glad things are back up and running.


I do have a concern though - I check back on Integramod.com from time to time simply because I like to search through the history there and get ideas or solve problems, this site just hasn't built enough history yet.
Today I noticed Wekke is building his site up on Ingtramod 2.0.

Has anyone tested this version? Has anyone besides Wekke even seen this version?
Why would want to take an untested version and test it on your main site? This leaves you in a perpetual state of beta testing, while this might be great for the developers working on the Beta it sucks big time for the end consumers of the product...

How many people were driven from integramod because their first exposure to it was on Integramod.com which was riddled with issues that were completely unecessary...

I appreciate the work everyone - wekke included - has done on Integramod it has made my life a lot easier.

But I am a software developer by trade and find it confusing and quite unacceptable to run your primary production site as a beta testing tool to try out new things, I discounted and "lived with it" because of the power and ease of use Integramod allowed integrating many great php mdules into a single easy to use interface.

So to me watching the story unfold, listening to the reasons to fracture off into Integramod2.com reinforced my belief in the Integramod platform.

But as for ownership, open source is open source. Integramod is an integration platform and if Wekke decides to attempt to claim ownership of Integramod itself he had better get permission from all the php module builders out there that go into making Integramod the powerful tool that it is.

To me Wekke wasn't trying claim ownership of the Integramod software, thats impossible, once a system is made open source no one person can own it, to me Wekke was attempting to claim ownership on the community itself.

[Nata]

One word : thanks to administrator and moderator for resÃÂÂ ªcting the liberty of thinking !

OzzieOne if u were in IM.com or another forums u will pay for that !

[Frostvarg]

as a long time user of IM i see no negative issues with this split. it was always a big surprise to me that the site was used for beta testing and since all those great person that has offered support when i have been in trouble are on this site im happy with it.

Frostvarg

[Dr. Bantham]

I may be wrong Dr. Bantham but in my travels using the IntegraMod system I have come acrossed nothing but opensource material. So to me there is no "legal implications" of moving things to IntegraMod.

My statement was a polite argument to OzzieOne's post:

Stealing the intellectual property of one site might be considered "hostile". Did you get Wekke's permission to take a backup of the orignal IntegraMOD and post on your web-server? If not, that would be considered theft in most parts of the world.

I think we are in total agreement regarding the open-source nature of the project:

. . . we should not forget that IntegraMOD is by and large a pre-packaged bundle of phpBB and various modifications, many of which were not created by IntegraMOD members. Mind you, the complexities of integrating the whole are quite mind-boggling, but much of the core content is open source code which was created by other parties.

The gray areas are the database copy and the IntegraMOD "brand". I would think that the former is community data gathered on behalf of the open-source effort, and free of any binding administrator rights. The latter is more of a sticky issue, since it may default to the terms of rights transfer between Master David and Wekke. I was only trying to address OzzieOne's accusations while pondering the legal implications involved. One should not wholly overlook such concerns. Lastly, I hope it was clear that I support the new move one hundred percent, especially in light of the dramatic circumstances.

[found it]

I have an oppinion on this ....


but I refuse to get involved either way.....yes I had nearly 1700 posts and yes a great deal of important info that i saved on the site and at present is unavailable to me.....

but hey...

[Simon N]

Me too mate...but every great project needs clipping from time to time so it can flourish anew.

I support the project and those that help... Not the host of the site. If you can not tell the difference heres a clue the host tends to be a silent partner (very silent).

[found it]

Not the host of the site. If you can not tell the difference heres a clue the host tends to be a silent partner (very silent).

Sorry did I miss read this as you saying I cannot tell the differance.....

[Fubie]

Here is a nifty little point about the "IntegraMOD" brand.

Wekke states that MasterDavid gave him ownership. I never saw any post on IM.com stating that fact.

If Wekke decided to go after the team he will have to prove that this was done.

He would in fact have to contact MasterDavid and get that proof.

Knowing MasterDavid I'm betting he would not be to overjoyed with Wekkes performance or behavior.

So MasterDavid could then decide what to do since he is the copywrite holder for IntegraMOD.

[IntegraTeam]

True Fubie.

Fear not Dr. Bantham, I understood you and agree with you.

And yes, the two issues are copy and brand.

I think it was crx who posted that MD had left IM in the hands of all the admins, Wekke, CRXGames, Alpaca and MrDSL.

[Helter]

these are that last two posts from MasterDavid. At the time this post was made Wekke was not board founder, MD was. Wekke was one of 4-5 admins. It is funny because I remember a post that said he was leaving Integramod in the capable hands of his admins and mods...seems to have been deleted


in this entire thread, there is no reply from Wekke

Hello All,

Things have happened for the past few months and I can say that I might not be able to handle the administration of IntegraMOD (as what has happened for the past month). You all know how I love this project that I have put countless of hours to put this in this way (of course with the help from all of you). But it has come to the point that I really need to choose between something of being a hobby and something that will make a livelihood out of my skills. I really do not want to earn from IntegraMOD and I have made it that way since the beginning (except for google ads before and the StormPay donation link - which noone ever donates Razz ).

Since I really need to earn for my family (since I am the only one working now in my family), it has come that I really need to get something from my php skills beside of my current work that sad to say is only enough for our everyday living but not to save for my own family in the future. With that, I will be focusing now on making commercial applications.

I am sorry for that. I hope you can understand my situation here. I just hope that I am that rich so that I can still continue IntegraMOD and IM Portal.

Anyway, I am asking you guys who can volunteer to be the administrator of IntegraMOD. I am open to any suggestions. Just post your ideas here about this offer.

Regards,
masterdavid

First of all, thanks to everyone who keeps the flames burning here at integramod.com. I am seeing a better future now for integramod because development is now divided into more people. and seeing this happen, i am really proud to have started these projects (IntegraMOD and IM Portal). But I actually don't want to be remembered as only the starter... and I will always be a part of this team (i hope I still am).

Anyway, since the devs are already busy with the new version of IntegraMOD, I think my part here will be focused on the development of IM Portal. I have always wanted to focus on IM Portal before but most of my time is being eaten by the development of IntegraMOD. Now that more developers are focused to IntegraMOD, I think I can now continue on with IM Portal.

I hope it would be ok for you guys to have this idea.

P.S.
Things are getting a little better for me now and I am now finding some room during weekends to continue with what I love most. I just hope it is still possible with IM Portal.

Regards to everyone and once again, thank you very much.

[Simon N]

Not the host of the site. If you can not tell the difference heres a clue the host tends to be a silent partner (very silent).

Sorry did I miss read this as you saying I cannot tell the differance.....

No not you......

[Helter]

i dont understand the post either... are you saying I should be silent?

[IntegraTeam]

When MD Left CRXGAmes wrote

It is official, masterdavid has given wekke, me, alpaca, and MrDSL the rights to develop Integramod until he is back.

The next release( 1.3.3 ) will be minor bug fixes, mod updates, a few new mods that add 0 queries, and mods that remove queries.

Should be released within a few weeks or less.

-Here is a list of what will be updated:
-phpBB 2.0.10 to 2.0.11 (critical update, 11/18/04)
-admin userlist from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2
-Shoutbox upgraded from 1.0.10 to 1.1.5
-Staff Site v2.2.0 to 2.2.3
-Smilies in Topic Titles v1.0.0 to 1.1.1
-Page Generation Time v2.0.0 to v2.0.1
-Junior Admin v2.0.3 to v2.0.5
-Bots MOD v1.0.0 to v1.1.0

Very Happy

Cheers,
Your new development team

It was in this thread that MD returned and made the second quote in Helter's post

[Simon N]

i dont understand the post either... are you saying I should be silent?

noooooooo

Was getting at the fact that wekke was not support staff as such..he was a host of a site. He remained silent like a host and acted like a host until recently when he acted like an idiot. So how he can lay claim to "owning" integramod is beyond me.

I just feel sorry for the guy in that he has let his own ego cloud judgement on a community project.

Even if he does release IM2 with all the changes that are claimed...how will he support it? I would rather use an out of date version with great support over an unsupported version anyday.

[Stevenh]

Hello all...
Being one of the newbs here I just stumbled over this thread. I figured hearing from a new IM'er might be in line. I may be new to IM but on the whole am also one of the original member driven site providers as in BBS's (The Inner Circle) and dialup access as far as that went 15 years ago. We always had admin/staff problems and differences of opinions but, one thing had to be and always was clear for the most part, "support is everything". You can write the best software that turns onions into oranges but if there is no support then all that the members have... are onions. IF the first guys want to take their toys and not let anyone play that bites but if someone else picks up the reigns and runs with it then more power to you. If your paying for the privilege of some yack spouting off then I feel for you (been there) and hope you take it with the proverbial grain of salt.

Cheers to everyone that is here...NOW, and helping all of us get to know this fantastic program regardless of the when's and where's that came with getting it to this point. I have nothing but praise for those who have helped me with kind, courteous and knowledgable replies.

I too was about to tip over to joomla (which BTW just went through a similar fiasco themselves) and now that I've found a program that for the most part will do what I need and in general has the support it needs, I'll be sticking with it.

Just a thought here, isn't programming that has entered the open source arena then freely out there? Isn't that the whole point of the open source/gnu? To put it simply if Tourvalds said "I quit" I highly doubt RH or Ubuntu would even flinch... well maybe a little. But thats just a thought... hope you guys don't flinch.


<img>
Appreciate all of you BIG TIME here ...figured you could all use an ego stroke

Steven

[computerskillz]

This was a very interesting, enlightening, and entertaining thread, providing alot of history of the great Integramod.

Being a new user, I had thought that MD had passed away or something. But I see now, he's out making money. Thats great, because then there's a strong possibility that he may return.

The only thing I'm concerned about is what will happen when Wekke eventually releases IM2.0 with PHP5.0 code. Wouldn't that equate to two different development paths for the project (similar to how joomla branched off from mambo) ?

Or will the two "different" IntegraMods be somehow integrated themselves?

This is a big question which I have not seen addressed to date.

[Driver 7]

Thats a very good question that I don't think anyone can actually answer.

What ever happens, happens.

I would rather Wekke come here and make amends with everyone. But thats a dream thats probably a little far fetched.

[computerskillz]

Thats a very good question that I don't think anyone can actually answer.

What ever happens, happens.

I would rather Wekke come here and make amends with everyone. But thats a dream thats probably a little far fetched.

Here's one thats more far fetched.. Wekke and MD returing in full force to the team. Now THAT would be something. Wouldn't it. <img>

[SLY LS1]

I just feel sorry for the guy in that he has let his own ego cloud judgement on a community project.

How often does that happen on forums, Ive seen some classics here in OZ.

Anyway, life goes on, this place is going fine and everyone's very helpful.

Cheers Guys keep up the good work.

SLY

[jwernerny]

[In this post, John tries to inject some wisdom by looking back on something that happened to another open source project a few years ago....]

These threads seem very reminiscent of the GNU Emacs and XEmacs "split" about 10 years back. It happened with two sets of very strong willed people. While it was a bit bothersome to us end-users when it happened, in the end it worked out pretty well. Both camps grew their own support and code bases, and the world had two choices instead of one. So, the end-user turned out to be the winner.

Well, almost. In some cases, the end-user has lost. While both packages are very similar and run 95% of the same extensions, there are some minor differences that cause some extensions (or mods) to completely break, and it is usually the ones you really want to have. If only the parties involved had agreed to disagree, but remain 100% compatible.

[SeNTry]

I'm an integramod fan and run 3 sites on integramod and IMPORTAL, for about the last year and a half. (Started the week 1.4 came out...) My first comment about all this would have to be... wow.

I haven't checked integramod.com for a while, mainly because I'm very busy and would mainly use it as a resource to solve a problem and answer any questions I could while there. Now I check back to see what progress has been made, and I see the website closed, but with a link to this site which is all the more mysterious after reading this thread.

I don't understand all that happened, and I guess if I were honest I would have to say I'm more concerned with quality and improvement of the already fantastic Integramod more than I am a rift amongst the principals. I would guess that there are quite a few like me... at this point I wonder 'OK, who has the ball then? Who is working on it?' I also see Adrian Rae and Helterskelter and a couple others here who were extremely helpful to me, freely taking their own time to help me solve oddball problems and get my site back up. That's gonna be where my loyalty will lie, but I still would like to know: Are you guys continuing development? Is there an 'alternate' version of 2.0 or something that you will be putting out? I did see the d/l on the front page for 2.0.21, but it appears to be only an update. Is there a full install file for a fresh install?

If you guys are starting over here, I would like to be a part of the community (strictly as a question asking idiot) and maybe make a friendly suggestion...

When I first put up an integramod page, I was pretty confused about what files to get, where/how to install, and a host of newbie questions. Since you are offering a product, it should be extremely obvious and easy to find on your front portal page. A banner or something that says 'get the latest version here!' which links to a page with all info, update notes, and direct links for the install packages with a history, how-to's, tutorials, readme's, everything in one location on pages instead of forum threads. The download module is cool, but it serves better for a site like my game team that isn't really based on a main product. And the forums are the home for help/troubleshooting and of course the thriving community.

Just a suggestion. Either way, I really hope integramod continues to improve and grow into a stable and fast website structure.

[Fubie]

As a matter of fact progress is being made. We have our first public beta of IM1.41 out for you to play with.

We are all doing our best to keep IM alive and well.

I remember seeing you in the past SeNtry and I'm glad to see you back.

[SeNTry]

HI Fubie, thanks for the warm welcome. I remember you as well, you're def. some of the brain power around here that has helped me in the past.

I'm glad to know that you all are still working on it, I would hate to see this fall by the wayside. I think it's the best alternative, and in fact better in many ways, to vbulletin. I sincerely wish you guys the best of luck, I hope you put whatever mess there was behind you and continue on.